“We’re polarized less about politics and more about the system itself,” said New York Times columnist and podcast host Ezra Klein during his visit to the La Follette School last week. “Policy is a good thing to be polarized over.” Instead, Klein said, the locus of polarization is about democracy itself, and whether our institutions are legitimate. “It’s a much more dangerous form of polarization.”
While on campus, Klein shared how the political environment has changed since his 2020 book “Why We’re Polarized” was released as he met with students, faculty, policymakers, and the community to talk about a wide range of policy topics—from climate and housing to polarization in Wisconsin politics and the 2024 presidential election. Over 950 people joined the school for Klein’s April 16 public talk at the Monona Terrace, which included a moderated conversation with La Follette’s Interim Director Greg Nemet.
La Follette School alum and Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Jill Karofsky (MA ’92) and MPA student Johanna Schmidt kicked off the evening by sharing some highlights from the school’s history and the ways students past and present apply the lessons learned at La Follette. “I came to the school with a vision of how policy can improve our state and how broader systems impact people’s lives,” said Schmidt. “La Follette has helped me hone my methods for policy analysis.” Reflecting on her own time at the school, Justice Karofsky noted that she has used skills learned at La Follette throughout her career, especially as a member of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and she plans to apply those lessons when the Supreme Court system prepares its next budget.
In his talk, Klein, who is well known for his in-depth analysis of public policy issues, explained that polarization does not simply mean disagreement; it is about the organization of disagreement within a system. A higher level of polarization means that people are more organized in their opinions. For example, Klein said, in Wisconsin and the rest of the country, political views are highly organized by geography, but more by urban versus rural than by geographic region. “Back in the 20th century, the density of where you live didn’t correlate with politics,” said Klein. “Now there are no cities that vote Republican.”
The role of educational polarization has also become profound, said Klein. In a reversal, the Democratic party now tends to win college-educated voters, while Republicans win non-college-educated voters. More important than whether people like the candidate, said Klein, is whether voters think the candidate would like them. “The politicians who keep winning in Wisconsin and other places…can convey a sense that they think highly of the people they represent even if they didn’t vote for them.”
As Klein and Nemet discussed what kind of event could break the country out of the “stable stalemate” of polarized politics, Klein was unsure, noting that neither the COVID-19 pandemic nor the events of January 6 helped with polarization. “What would be a bigger punctuation in the equilibrium than that?”
To restore trust in institutions, policymakers need to improve institutions so they can address the issues people care most about, such as building enough homes to remedy the housing crisis, said Klein. When asked why good policymaking does not necessarily lead to political favor, Klein noted that policy feedback loops are very slow. “You have to make people’s lives better and not consider that politics.”
During his visit, Klein also joined La Follette School graduate students in PA 866: Global Environmental Governance and PA 878: Introduction to Public Management for a lively discussion. La Follette School Student Association Vice President Luis Navarette moderated the conversation as students asked questions about journalism, national and Wisconsin politics, political polarization in Wisconsin, social media regulation, and identity politics. Klein discussed how people tend to vote by identity more at the national level than the local level.
Klein’s biggest piece of advice for students was to read books and think deeply about them. “I think it’s an actual superpower,” said Klein. “You’d be surprised by how many people just fake it, and don’t go to the primary source.”
At the conclusion of his public talk, Klein returned to this idea, and recommended four books for anyone interested in public policy or politics:
- Recoding America by Jennifer Pahlka
- Public Citizens by Paul Sabin
- When the Clock Broke by John Ganz
- Cultural Backlash by Pippa Norris and Ronald Inglehart
Klein is the La Follette School’s spring 2024 Public Affairs Journalist in Residence. This event was a part of the La Follette School’s 40th anniversary celebration, which included an alumni and friends reception and a breakfast with policymakers and was generously funded by the Kohl Initiative, the Paul Offner Lecture Series, and University Communications.
View photos from Ezra Klein’s visit.